In this Discussion
- circlenepal20 September 2007
- DJRose September 2007
- doctor5cap August 2007
- hail9fat August 2007
- jedi_grrlie August 2007
- kissteam1 September 2007
- manx9shrine August 2007
- moveadvice72 September 2008
- plane8order August 2007
- recordwolf57 September 2007
- sweetness August 2007
- target35ghost July 2008
- tune1shade September 2007
- women60banana August 2007
- yak63geese September 2007
Comments
You draw that line because you can die of a heroin overdose on your first hit. Stuff like heroin, crystal meth, cocaine, all of that can seriously fuck you up if you're not careful, and then, even if you are. Does that mean there shouldn't be education? No, maybe you have a good point in saying that we should provide education that goes beyond the standard "don't do drugs!" But I don't see why we should go out there and legalise everything. "People are going to do it anyway" and "we're just fueling the black market" seem like silly reasons to go and legalise something like cocaine. Sure, the market exists with all its implications and complications, and if people really want to do it, they will. But I don't think that's a good reason to legalise it.
I don't know where I stand on the legalisation of marijuana. It's certainly not addictive like so much else out there (including tobacco), but it does have its risks and I think there's certain merit in saying it can act like a "gateway drug." (I'm not saying it's an automatic gateway, that if you do pot, you're automatically going to try everything else, but I think in certain cases, yes, it can be.)
As for drinking, first off, they're never going to lower the drinking age to 18 in the US, not in the near future. Firstly, we're a very Protestant society (whether or not you are Protestant, we are as a society), which means we have very Protestant notions of sex, drugs, and other "sins" and "vices." Secondly, 21-year-olds will give alcohol to their college friends, who are typically 18 and up; 18-year-olds would give alcohol ot their high school friends, who are as young as 13 in some cases. And 13-year-olds, I'm sorry, are not mature enough to be binge drinking with their friends, not in this society. You can argue that teenagers in Europe drink, but what works for France and Italy will not necessarily work here. That's just the way it is.
I used to be vehemently for lowering the drinking age. Now that I'm 21, I'm not sure that's such a good idea after all. I actually think 19 or 20 might be better choices. You can roll your eyes and say, "That's only one year" all you want. That's what I think. It was really nice never having to provide ID while abroad, and it's really annoying to have to do so here. But I was also 20 when I was abroad, not 18.
As for England, I think there are a loooooooooooooot of underlying societal problems that go beyond just the drinking. I have never, ever felt more culture shock that I have in England, and much of it arose when drugs, alcohol, or sex were being discussed. I dunno', I think a lot of things need to change over there.
As for pot being a gateway drug, I'm inclined to believe that if you're the type that would do cocaine, you'll likely do pot first because it's more available. But that same person offered cocaine before they'd smoked pot, i think would still take the cocaine.
Now the debate here is not to lower the age in the states, but rather to raise it to 21 abroad. (I did mention a discussion on another board about lowering it here.)
I've never really had an opinion about the age. I'm fine with it where it is. i don't think I'm for lowering it either. People of all ages make terrible decisions while drunk, and lord knows I've been one of them. But yes if 18 years old can buy many more 13 year olds will drink. perhaps that the logic by restricting it to a bar. There you couldn't give it to your 13 year old brother. And maybe that would work where there's good public transportation, but in Little Rock Arkansas 18 year olds drunk in a bar are going to result in 18 year olds dead on the I30 bridge.
yes, I know there are 21 year old drunk drivers, and 25 year old drunk drivers and 40 year olds... et al. But I don't think we need to add to that kids with 2 years driving experience at MOST and possibly even less drinking experience. It's a recipe for disaster.
But i think your 1 year is an important one. It's the out of high school year and yeah, I bet a lot fewer really young kids would it from 19 year olds than 18 year olds. But personally i am fine with it where it is.
But by that same token, Sex was a BIG no-no in my parents' eyes. When did I lose my virginity? At my first opportunity, with a guy I'd been with for less than 6 months. My first real boyfriend, truth be told. Why? Because it was naughty and against the rules and exciting. And can I just shout from the rooftops what a gigantic mistake THAT was? How much would I give to go back and take that crap back?
Make it against the rules? It's exciting and rebellious and everything a kid wants. Then they start younger and don't have the levels of responsibility to take care of themselves. Countries that don't have drinking ages have significantly lower instances of alcoholism, no lie. Even when you're in your 20's, 30's and 40's, that whole "oooh, I'm not supposed to" definitely stays with you.
Edited for TMI, LOL.
Agreed. That's what I think I meant...or something like that. o.O
Well, yes, I know that, I was just throwing in the US sort of as a comparison, because as much as you can argue about that, I really don't believe they'll lower the age any time soon.
In my health class last year, I remember literally everyday we would have a drug debate about legalizing pot. And it was always everyone in my class for legalizing it vs. my teacher who was against it.
And I know a lot of people who smoke pot, and I know a lot of them would never do anything else. They wouldn't do cocaine or heroin or ecstasy because that stuff will mess you up.
And about 3/4 of the school get drunk every weekend because it's the "cool" thing to do. Because they aren't allowed to do it. I'm the youngest in my family, so I've seen my 3 older siblings all drink before. And my older brothers would sometimes have parties when my parents were away or whatever. And they aren't out of control parties. Just with a couple of their friends and alcohol. And for me it's not that big of a deal, as long as no one is going crazy and no one dries home drunk. But I've had friends who would come over during these parties and all they want to do is get drunk and they're like "woah, look at the beer, i want some." And other times when they have the opportunity to "raid" they're parents cabinets, it's not that big of a deal to me. I think for them it's like "let's have some beer because it's here and we can," but for me, I don't have that much of a desire to. They're not that used to being around alcohol so they want to just drink it all, but for me I guess since I've been around those parties and gatherings that i'm used to it. Therefore, I don't have as much of a desire to drink it, ya know?
Do you think that parents should let their kids taste alcoholic beverages, or maybe have a glass of wine on special occasions, like say for New Years? And how much/often should they allow?
Do you think that parents should let their kids taste alcoholic beverages, or maybe have a glass of wine on special occasions, like say for New Years? And how much/often should they allow?
Absolutely. But how much would obviously depend on their age, and how much someone their size can handle.
Exactly.
Kay knows what she's talking about
except for me
my first reaction to this whole 21+ thing, is "pshh this doenst concern me" but then the more i think about it i guess it does. The whole restricion to drinking means that there will be a restricion on the age of kids that can go to most shows. I personally like it when there are more kids who love to dance then more "adults" who like to stand and nod at shows.
at 21 (ekk me in 2 months) i figure most people ( but not me
also thinking back, if the legal drinking age in Toronto was 21 instead of 19 i would of never been able to go to more than half of the shows ive been to... shit that would of sucked
i hate booze.
Do you think that parents should let their kids taste alcoholic beverages, or maybe have a glass of wine on special occasions, like say for New Years? And how much/often should they allow?
Good question. Yes, I agree with it - if it's done with the right goal in mind. I think the idea is to get children to respect alcohol, not lust after it. I think it's a good idea for them to see their parents having one glass of wine and being able to taste it. I think it's also okay to limit the amount they get to "taste" to an age-appropriate amount and talk about what happens when people drink too much. I think making it a taboo subject fails to teach kids the responsibility they need to learn, and closes the dialogue for some good questions later. In the US, most states permit drinking in this manner - at home, with parents present.
When I was growing up, my parent gave me permission to drink at home, too - when they were home, and with no friends over. I never wanted to be stupid about it, because they trusted me. As long as I lived in their house, I was really smart about it. (Then a total dumb*ss later, but that's another story...)
And DJRose, I can understand the chocolate martini seduction. Those things are just darn tasty.
Really? Wow, this I did not know.
I think I agree with you. My parents allowed me to taste things, and they'd even let me have a glass of wine if I wanted to. In fact they asked me if I wanted it. Apparently they didn't do a bad job, because I've decided I don't want to drink. Ever. I may chage my mind when I'm older, but for now, I don't want to even really taste anything.
My brother does like to have a say a glass of wine when it's a special occasion and such, but he never drinks a lot. He most likely will drink more when he's 21 (which is this year actually), but I think he will be safe about it. Actually, I'm sure he will be.
So, I think I agree with you.
Exactly. This was how it was handled in my house, and thusly I am a responsible adult drinker.
Who are you tellin'? Sprocksie, there is a brilliant post on the Grownups board from that 3 martini night too. I'll find it and bump it for you.
Who are you tellin'? Sprocksie, there is a brilliant post on the Grownups board from that 3 martini night too. I'll find it and bump it for you.
Oh my gosh, I would love to see that.
There's a petition in Missouri now to lower the drinking age to 18, here's the link:missouri18todrink
Frankly. no one on this campaign is nearly as eloquent as we are. The radio interview that they have posted for promotional purposes is terrible.
Summary:
radio interviewer: "Why do you want to lower the drinking age to 18? Please give solid reasons, backed by statistics."
Mike Mikkelson: "Um, 'cause we should."
Ah, good reason.
edit: extra comma
[sidebar]
Jedi, it is addictive mentally. I can go without and I don't have any physical symptoms of withdrawl at all. But I think about it, and wish i had it, and smoke the crap in the bottom of my pipe (isn't it glamourous kids??). I don't currently have a dealer in my town and i like it that way because if i have it, and I don't have work or some other responsibility, I'm high, all the time. Like I said, I don't do it before work, and it doesn't interfere with my work or other responsibilities, but I cannot say that I'm not addicted. I quit for 3 months after college to find a job, but in the past 11 years that's by far the longest I've gone without it.
[/sidebar]
I think it's amazing I turned out as good as I did. I did fall quite short of my dreams, but where I'm at, I would consider myself sucessful.
My sister on the other hand, is more like you. She has the same freedoms I had. She's tried alcohol and pot, but her friends were worried about her so she stopped. As far as I know, she has yet to have sex. I think she would tell me if she had, she's not going to be in trouble for it, so there's no need to lie.
So I guess my point is kids drink for different reasons. Some do it cause it's taboo, I did it because that's what the older kids were doing and I wanted to fit in. I also did it to get drunk. some don't do it at all.
As for parents letting their teens taste alcohol, I don't really have a problem with as long as they're teaching good habits along with it. My parents gave me unrestricted access to all of it and that was just stupid. A father and son having a beer on a fishing trip, no problem. One glass of champagne on New Years Eve, big deal. But when your dad buys the whiskey for the high school party, no! But I think with that drink they need to try to impress upon the teen that one drink is fine, but 6 are dangerous.
I also think every parent should tell their teen if you're ever drunk and need a safe ride home call me and you won't be in trouble. I did have that, but of course I wouldn't have been in trouble for drinking anyway. To this day I still overdo it occasionally and regret it, but by God I know damn good and well not to get behind the wheel!!
Bumped for you then. Thread's called "I miss Andy Duncan". Page 2. ::sigh::
And Wolf, well, I'm not ignoring your post, I just have no response for it. I wish you the best of luck in overcoming your addiction.