Agh, I've been thinking about this for two days. Why? I'm obsessive, I've listened to novelty, parody, and silly songs all my life, and while I generally like my job, in the mid afternoon my mind just gets BORED and my mind wanders.
I think I don't like this parody because it is too heavy handed – it's more like satire. I'm thinking "A Modest Proposal" here. I think also, though, I'm used to more gentle parody and for heaven's sake BETTER parody, better execution.
Of course I'm going to bring up Weird Al, briefly, though, I promise. As far as quality, when Al is on, he's so ON like redonkeylous (okay, I just tired to spell that word and it was in the spell check – dude) donkey kong – when he's OFF it's just painful, just, just painful. As far as gentle, for an example, when he did his "Achy Breaky Heart" parody a few years ago, he decided that it was a bit too mean and so gave his profits to charity.
So, all the above is just a taste, thing, really. Or, in the best light, a brief rant by a reasonably well read (well listening?) critic.
Still and yet, and I know, I know – yes, NOT to bring up the 'videos more important than music' thing would have made the whole exercise incomplete, I know, but it still PISSES me off because that's not correct. Parody needs to extend what is already present in order to poke fun at it – hyperbole doesn't make sense when there is no 'bole' in the first place. And, YES, YES, I know, I know this opinion is an opinion TOO. But, hell, Damian has explained this and explained this – it's a whole package deal, one art doesn't over shadow another art, it's 'make cool shit'. And that is such a pure, simple concept.
So, because my brain apparently needs to have these delineations – I've decided that the parody itself was meh just because it was meh, I'm more gentle spirited than a lot of people, and the 'videos over music' thing just pisses me off, no matter if the parody was an epic parody or not.
Totally agree with you about the satire vs parody thing.
I think it's funny, I just didn't like it after the first couple viewings partly because the joke/jokes isn't/aren't funny enough to go on that long. I don't really care about the heavy handed-ness, because lots of people actually feel that way (and their feeling are valid. Wrong, but valid.). Many is the parody I have done that crosses into definite "mean" territory, depending upon who is viewing it, whether or not I meant it that way ( I had a scathing Okkervil River Graphic Novel a couple of years back that, while spot on for the band at the time, was a bit more mean-spirited than it perhaps could have been had one particular band member ever seen it in full).
I have a feeling that parts of this were in good fun, and parts of it do have that mean-spirited vibe. But some things just aren't as funny after the initial absurdity wears off, and for me, that's what happened with Giant Pie.
Amber, what about "Smells Like Nirvana"? That's one of Al's biggest hits, and he still does it in concert dressing up as Kurt Cobain, who is dead and sainted (not really, but you know what I'm saying).
What is this song all about?
Can't figure any lyrics out.
How do the words to it go?
I wish you'd tell me, I don't know.
------
We're so loud and incoherent
Boy this oughta bug your parents
And the like. The whole song is about how you can't understand anything Kurt Cobain says,. Is that parody or satire?
I found out about Giant Pie because whoever's running the OKGo twitter put it up there with a whole lot of "hahahahahahah." The guys think it's funny and aren't bothered by it.
I found out about GP when Christel posted in on her FB, and then I saw Team OK Go's post of it. =D
I luvz teh interwebz.
Al contacts all the artists he is thinking of recording and releasing a parody of and asks for permission first, which he doesn't have to do, as a parody is considered "fair use" under US copyright law. (One of my other favorite bands, Apologetix, is a parody band and opts for the fair use side of it, since they make negative money anyway, but that's why I know about that law.) After the Coolio debacle (his label told Al yes, then Coolio said, what? I never gave permission – but Coolio kept the royalties, hm!) Al made a point of always talking directly to the artists themselves.
In Nirvana's case, once when they appeared on SNL, Al's friend Victoria Jackson got them on the phone with Al. Al asked about doing the parody and Cobain's only stated concern – it's not going to be about food, is it? Al told him is was about how no one could understand their lyrics. Also, when Nirvana guys saw the video they thought it was hysterical.
-Side note, since Prince has popped up on this board recently – Prince has never granted permission for a recorded Weird Al parody song.
Okay, so Nirvana is/was okay with it, check. So, parody or satire?
To me, parody has a different connotation then satire – parody being the 'hey, check this out, isn't this funny/strange/odd?" and satire being the 'hey, I can solve the hunger problem, eat the kids.' Now, I said connotation. Parody seems gentler than satire. Definition wise (thank you m-w.com)
satire:
1: a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn 2: trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly
parody:
1: a literary or musical work in which the style of an author or work is closely imitated for comic effect or in ridicule 2: a feeble or ridiculous imitation
Giant Pie FEELS more like satire to me . The creators intention, though, was likely parody (comic effect). Not that I know what their intents were. Only going on guts here.
All that said, I'm glad the boys were parodied. That means people are thinking enough about them that they actually spend the time and thought to film something about our boys. Also, parody can go where originial doesn't – who is going to see GP and then think, who is this band? and find out.
Most importantly, it appears Team OK Go is cool with it. I'm just having far too much fun writing far too much about a topic I have far too much opinion about.
I see all the sides of this, and wanted to say one more thing:
I get what jedi_grrlie is saying, but I think that the general public still regards the band as "the treadmill guys." Most of the people who ended up watching TTSP saw it as a cool machine that dances, but never got any farther than that and didn't actually get into the whole how-it-came-together part, which is what is being parodied here. The people who did delve into that are the only ones that get it, and I'm sure that's the minority. Most people don't have the time/attention span to go deeper.
And I agree with Amber, I love that the guys are important enough to be parodied. In that case, however, I do feel it's more satire, I mean, when I think "parody OK Go," I think this:
I wish this new board would let me do multiple quotations easily. AROSS WHERE ARE YOU??
violetchaos364 said: Still and yet, and I know, I know – yes, NOT to bring up the 'videos more important than music' thing would have made the whole exercise incomplete, I know, but it still PISSES me off because that's not correct.
…
But, hell, Damian has explained this and explained this – it's a whole package deal, one art doesn't over shadow another art, it's 'make cool shit'. And that is such a pure, simple concept.
Regardless of whether or not it's correct, it's most people's perception of the band. That's most people's fault, I guess. Preaching to the choir won't change anything – if it REALLY makes you angry, set out to change that.
I totally respect the "whole package deal" and I think OK Go did the best thing they could in splitting amicably from EMI, but I also totally saw EMI's point when they said that they're a music label and OK Go is seen as a video band. Again, that's perception. Again, it might not be correct. Again, the only way to change that is to change the rest of the public's perception.
violetchaos364 said: Al contacts all the artists he is thinking of recording and releasing a parody of and asks for permission first, which he doesn't have to do, as a parody is considered "fair use" under US copyright law.
Making parody songs is also Weird Al's job. That's how he makes his living, that is his main body of work. Landline TV, on the other hand, makes funny videos. They might be parodies, satires, or just plain goofy, they might come from a theme in pop culture or history or wherever they get an idea from, but the majority of their work is not reworking other's songs and rerecording them. They're similar lines of work, but they're not the same, and what Weird Al chooses to do in order to secure his much more high-profile work does not dictate what Landline TV should do and does not make their work automatically disrespectful, although it might end up being so.
violetchaos364 said:satire:
1: a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn 2: trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly
parody:
1: a literary or musical work in which the style of an author or work is closely imitated for comic effect or in ridicule 2: a feeble or ridiculous imitation
Going by these definitions, this video would be a parody, not a satire. It is not a literary work, and I did not find the feeble wit to be trenchant. On top of this, it did not handle vice or folly, unless you consider "making lots of crazy music videos" to be "folly." I guess you could argue that doing such shows "a lack of good sense or understanding," but I don't think that's what they were going for here.
It is, however, a musical work in which the style of another work is closely imitated for comic effect or ridicule. Or, even better, a feeble or ridiculous imitation. Regardless of how "heavy-handed" it may feel, it is not satire. While satire may mock the behaviours or actions of a specific person or persons, usually those are behaviours that are usually universal. It's far more often a comment on a particular society or humankind as a whole. This video merely imitates OK Go in an exagerrated manner to ridicule the fact that (according to the videomaker's impressions) they care more about making crazy videos than actually making music.
Aleatory said:but I think that the general public still regards the band as "the treadmill guys."
My point exactly. Most people know them as the treadmill guys from their video. If they happen to know them from TTSP, it's from their video. OK Go is excellent at using the video as a promotional tool, as it was originally intended when the music video and MTV first emerged. However, that probably does make many people think a) they had that one good video that was awesome, but don't know the rest of the music, or b) they've had several good videos that were awesome, but still don't know the rest of the music. Which gives them the impression that the rest of the music either isn't good enough or doesn't matter as much.
DJRose said:I found out about Giant Pie because whoever's running the OKGo twitter put it up there with a whole lot of "hahahahahahah." The guys think it's funny and aren't bothered by it.
I think that's what's the most important.
EDIT: Okay, I just tried editing that so that the quotations were less fucked-up, and now they're even MORE so. Whatever.
But honestly it wasn't the pardoy that bothered me or anything like that. It was that total mouthbreather Damian guy. Does that get under the skin of anyone else but me? The whole time, mouth open. Like gapping. It makes me think of that cartoon Hey Arnold!
UGH, yeah. That guy was annoying as hell and not too easy on the eyes, either. At least get someone in Damian's ballpark for chrissakes.
And I agree with Amber, I love that the guys are important enough to be parodied.
jedi_grrlie said:
DJRose said:I found out about Giant Pie because whoever's running the OKGo twitter put it up there with a whole lot of "hahahahahahah." The guys think it's funny and aren't bothered by it.
I think that's what's the most important.
OK Go being parodied and the fact guys think it's funny and aren't bothered by it. — Yep, most important part. =D
I completely agree with the bottom line: The guys like it, and that's what matters.
(I'm not even going to try to quote people here, I'll screw it up)
Either way, I think it's great that everyone here is awesome/dedicated/insane enough to make this thread into a discussion on the human condition and the merits of parody.
And, in the end, it doesn't matter whether it's parody or satire, it was a rather weak and less-funny-than-they-expected parody/satire. It was a little bit disappointing, but it's great that the guys have made enough of a mark on pop culture that they earned the right to be made fun of.
I completely agree with the bottom line: The guys like it, and that's what matters.
(I'm not even going to try to quote people here, I'll screw it up)
Either way, I think it's great that everyone here is awesome/dedicated/insane enough to make this thread into a discussion on the human condition and the merits of parody.
Quote boxes are scary. Quote at your own risk. Even cutting and pasting is dicey. (HA, dicey. OH, I crack myself up.)
I LOVE that about the boards - I can have a fairly intellectual discussion over on one thread and post a picture of Damian incidently exposing two square inches of his abdobmen and comment 'belly!' on another thread!
Either way, I think it's great that everyone here is awesome/dedicated/insane enough to make this thread into a discussion on the human condition and the merits of parody.
It sure beats sitting around talking about Damian's pants all the time. ;-)
Either way, I think it's great that everyone here is awesome/dedicated/insane enough to make this thread into a discussion on the human condition and the merits of parody.
It sure beats sitting around talking about Damian's pants all the time. ;-)
Well, we could be having a discussion on the condition of Tim's facial hair and the merits of Damian's ass instead...
How did this slip by us? Boardie slack-age lol. Just kidding.
Not really sure why they are parodying this about 4 years late, but it's cool. I always thought Penn looked like my dad hahaha.
I posted about it on the OK Go on TV shows, movies commercials etc. thread. But I didn't know the bit made it to YouTube. Great find!
It may be a little late, but it also means that HIGA is still relevant.
Dammit! I thought I finally won in the first-person-to-post-something game, but you beat me Becky. I should have never doubted the boards. I'm not worthy!
Either way, I think it's great that everyone here is awesome/dedicated/insane enough to make this thread into a discussion on the human condition and the merits of parody.
It sure beats sitting around talking about Damian's pants all the time. ;-)
Comments
Agh, I've been thinking about this for two days. Why? I'm obsessive, I've listened to novelty, parody, and silly songs all my life, and while I generally like my job, in the mid afternoon my mind just gets BORED and my mind wanders.
I think I don't like this parody because it is too heavy handed – it's more like satire. I'm thinking "A Modest Proposal" here. I think also, though, I'm used to more gentle parody and for heaven's sake BETTER parody, better execution.
Of course I'm going to bring up Weird Al, briefly, though, I promise. As far as quality, when Al is on, he's so ON like redonkeylous (okay, I just tired to spell that word and it was in the spell check – dude) donkey kong – when he's OFF it's just painful, just, just painful. As far as gentle, for an example, when he did his "Achy Breaky Heart" parody a few years ago, he decided that it was a bit too mean and so gave his profits to charity.
So, all the above is just a taste, thing, really. Or, in the best light, a brief rant by a reasonably well read (well listening?) critic.
Still and yet, and I know, I know – yes, NOT to bring up the 'videos more important than music' thing would have made the whole exercise incomplete, I know, but it still PISSES me off because that's not correct. Parody needs to extend what is already present in order to poke fun at it – hyperbole doesn't make sense when there is no 'bole' in the first place. And, YES, YES, I know, I know this opinion is an opinion TOO. But, hell, Damian has explained this and explained this – it's a whole package deal, one art doesn't over shadow another art, it's 'make cool shit'. And that is such a pure, simple concept.
So, because my brain apparently needs to have these delineations – I've decided that the parody itself was meh just because it was meh, I'm more gentle spirited than a lot of people, and the 'videos over music' thing just pisses me off, no matter if the parody was an epic parody or not.
Totally agree with you about the satire vs parody thing.
I think it's funny, I just didn't like it after the first couple viewings partly because the joke/jokes isn't/aren't funny enough to go on that long. I don't really care about the heavy handed-ness, because lots of people actually feel that way (and their feeling are valid. Wrong, but valid.). Many is the parody I have done that crosses into definite "mean" territory, depending upon who is viewing it, whether or not I meant it that way ( I had a scathing Okkervil River Graphic Novel a couple of years back that, while spot on for the band at the time, was a bit more mean-spirited than it perhaps could have been had one particular band member ever seen it in full).
I have a feeling that parts of this were in good fun, and parts of it do have that mean-spirited vibe. But some things just aren't as funny after the initial absurdity wears off, and for me, that's what happened with Giant Pie.
Amber, what about "Smells Like Nirvana"? That's one of Al's biggest hits, and he still does it in concert dressing up as Kurt Cobain, who is dead and sainted (not really, but you know what I'm saying).
What is this song all about?
Can't figure any lyrics out.
How do the words to it go?
I wish you'd tell me, I don't know.
------
We're so loud and incoherent
Boy this oughta bug your parents
And the like. The whole song is about how you can't understand anything Kurt Cobain says,. Is that parody or satire?
I found out about Giant Pie because whoever's running the OKGo twitter put it up there with a whole lot of "hahahahahahah." The guys think it's funny and aren't bothered by it.
I found out about GP when Christel posted in on her FB, and then I saw Team OK Go's post of it. =D
I luvz teh interwebz.
Al contacts all the artists he is thinking of recording and releasing a parody of and asks for permission first, which he doesn't have to do, as a parody is considered "fair use" under US copyright law. (One of my other favorite bands, Apologetix, is a parody band and opts for the fair use side of it, since they make negative money anyway, but that's why I know about that law.) After the Coolio debacle (his label told Al yes, then Coolio said, what? I never gave permission – but Coolio kept the royalties, hm!) Al made a point of always talking directly to the artists themselves.
In Nirvana's case, once when they appeared on SNL, Al's friend Victoria Jackson got them on the phone with Al. Al asked about doing the parody and Cobain's only stated concern – it's not going to be about food, is it? Al told him is was about how no one could understand their lyrics. Also, when Nirvana guys saw the video they thought it was hysterical.
-Side note, since Prince has popped up on this board recently – Prince has never granted permission for a recorded Weird Al parody song.
Okay, so Nirvana is/was okay with it, check. So, parody or satire?
To me, parody has a different connotation then satire – parody being the 'hey, check this out, isn't this funny/strange/odd?" and satire being the 'hey, I can solve the hunger problem, eat the kids.' Now, I said connotation. Parody seems gentler than satire. Definition wise (thank you m-w.com)
satire:
1 : a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn
2 : trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly
parody:
1 : a literary or musical work in which the style of an author or work is closely imitated for comic effect or in ridicule
2 : a feeble or ridiculous imitation
Giant Pie FEELS more like satire to me . The creators intention, though, was likely parody (comic effect). Not that I know what their intents were. Only going on guts here.
All that said, I'm glad the boys were parodied. That means people are thinking enough about them that they actually spend the time and thought to film something about our boys. Also, parody can go where originial doesn't – who is going to see GP and then think, who is this band? and find out.
Most importantly, it appears Team OK Go is cool with it. I'm just having far too much fun writing far too much about a topic I have far too much opinion about.I see all the sides of this, and wanted to say one more thing:
I get what jedi_grrlie is saying, but I think that the general public still regards the band as "the treadmill guys." Most of the people who ended up watching TTSP saw it as a cool machine that dances, but never got any farther than that and didn't actually get into the whole how-it-came-together part, which is what is being parodied here. The people who did delve into that are the only ones that get it, and I'm sure that's the minority. Most people don't have the time/attention span to go deeper.
And I agree with Amber, I love that the guys are important enough to be parodied. In that case, however, I do feel it's more satire, I mean, when I think "parody OK Go," I think this:
That's parody for me.
UGH, yeah. That guy was annoying as hell and not too easy on the eyes, either. At least get someone in Damian's ballpark for chrissakes.
OK Go being parodied and the fact guys think it's funny and aren't bothered by it. — Yep, most important part. =D
I completely agree with the bottom line: The guys like it, and that's what matters.
(I'm not even going to try to quote people here, I'll screw it up)
Either way, I think it's great that everyone here is awesome/dedicated/insane enough to make this thread into a discussion on the human condition and the merits of parody.
And, in the end, it doesn't matter whether it's parody or satire, it was a rather weak and less-funny-than-they-expected parody/satire. It was a little bit disappointing, but it's great that the guys have made enough of a mark on pop culture that they earned the right to be made fun of.
Quote boxes are scary. Quote at your own risk. Even cutting and pasting is dicey. (HA, dicey. OH, I crack myself up.)
I LOVE that about the boards - I can have a fairly intellectual discussion over on one thread and post a picture of Damian incidently exposing two square inches of his abdobmen and comment 'belly!' on another thread!
It sure beats sitting around talking about Damian's pants all the time. ;-)
It sure beats sitting around talking about Damian's pants all the time. ;-)
ROFL
Well, we could be having a discussion on the condition of Tim's facial hair and the merits of Damian's ass instead...
Well I found my favorite parody:
Penn & Teller
How did this slip by us? Boardie slack-age lol. Just kidding.
Not really sure why they are parodying this about 4 years late, but it's cool. I always thought Penn looked like my dad hahaha.
I posted about it on the OK Go on TV shows, movies commercials etc. thread. But I didn't know the bit made it to YouTube. Great find!
It may be a little late, but it also means that HIGA is still relevant.
Dammit! I thought I finally won in the first-person-to-post-something game, but you beat me Becky. I should have never doubted the boards. I'm not worthy!
This.