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okraparrot5

QUOTE (Mimi @ Nov 24 2007, 04:36 PM)

Hi, I'm new here and I thought I'd introduce myself.

I'm Marina, and I'm Electra's little sister!!
AND I LOVE OK GO!

hey!! i'm vinnie/angela.

welcomes to the sexy board!

target35ghost

Aww guys, thanks for the welcomes
Marina'll be so happy when I show her tomorrow.

cross98bengal

QUOTE (Juniperberry! @ Nov 25 2007, 12:03 AM)

Please tell me you didn't watch the Channel 7 broadcast, please. Haha, I actually tuned in for a minute just to see what was going on and saw Mel on the verge of tears and Barnaby getting told off by some guy for having no courtesy

Next federal election I'll be voting! How old are you smeja? I imagine you'd be in the same boat...

i don't know which channel i was watching.. i think i watched pretty much all of them...

i don't know if i'll be 18 next election... how long is it away... 3 or 4 years... i'll either just be 18... or just not be 18...

Tempe Arizona

I'm off tomorrow afternoon to spend 4 weeks in Flagstaff Arizona to practice my mad dental skills. Yeah, you know what I mean.

Anyway, dig this. I did a search for the next 3 days worth of weather in Phoenix vs. Flagstaff.
I'm going from the lovely Phoenix cold of: 68 high/43 low 75/45 72/43
to temps such as: 42 high/12 low 44/19 45 with snow showers!/18

And I do not have the proper winter clothes as I haven't needed any winter clothes for the past couple of years.

dollarflame6

I am extremely disappointed with Enchanted. I just saw it with my mother and it really went far below my expectations. The advertised it to be a parody of the classic Disney princess story: in reality, it was the same old Disney.
I speak as someone who hates Disney. Part of that may come from the fact that my parents love Disney and drag us all to Disneyland every year.
The main reason I hate Disney is that they teach the wrong values to girls. Disney is nothing more than Barbie in animated format. The princess is almost emaciated, has very large breasts and a thin waist and very scantily clad (if she isn't in a cleavage-exposing gown at some point, she may very well be practically naked as in The Little Mermaid). More importantly, she spends her whole life looking for Prince Charming. Someone is jealous of her beauty or wealth and goes after her; the prince saves her; they live happily ever after. Why is she always passive, the damsel in distress? Why can't she ever save her own life or achieve something other than finding a mate? Why can't she contribute to society, to technology and science, to history and art? People always say things like "well, Belle was smart." Sure she was- but that wasn't the point. It was an afterthought to make her more perfect, more desirable. The point was that she was Beauty and she was in love; in the end, the story couldn't even bring itself to praise love for its own sake, but had to make sure it was the love between Belle and an equally attractive man, not a beast.

In Enchanted, Marie Curie is mentioned at the opening as the father's initial belief of who a good role model for his daughter could be. He goes on to say, however, that Curie died from radiation poisoning and implies that perhaps she isn't such a great role model. That sentiment disgusts me. Curie was awarded the Nobel Prize both in physics and chemistry, and as someone pursuing science myself, she really is one of my heroes. In fact, her downfall was that she madly went after a married man and in her passion, she lost sight of taking care of herself. The fact that she died as a result of her research is something that should awe us. We all have to die, and I think that dying because of your devotion to science is noble. Curie is a woman who deserves respect, but instead, Disney made her out to be silly because she wasn't a fairytale princess.

The moment that really made me sigh in this movie was when the princess hesitated at returning home with the prince and said that what she wanted before she married him was a proper date. I had thought she was going to say that she wanted her degree. After all, they did show her reading the book that mentioned Curie, so my expectation wasn't totally unfounded- but appearantly, a degree isn't the most important thing to a young woman.

No, her role is only to find a man. And so the story became like every Disney story: how the princess found her true love. They couldn't even let her be the hero at the end- I thought they would, when she held the sword, but no! It was not the princess who defeated the dragon but the squirrel. Disney just couldn't bear to let the princess be the warrior.

The movie ended with the princess becoming a fashion designer of princess-styled gowns. I do understand that becoming an entrepreneur at all is a big step for the female Disney character and I know that fashion design requires a lot of creative thinking. However, that being said, it is, at its core, an industry of the body and sexual appeal. She did not become a chemist or physicist; she did not become a teacher; she did not become a social activist; she did not become a politician; she did not become a detective or police officer; she did not become a member of the fire department; she did not become a musician; she did not become a sculptor or painter; she did not become a nurse or doctor; she did not become a historian; she did not become a writer; she did not become a photographer; she did not become a pilot; she did not become a gardener; she did not become a car mechanic; she did not become a computer technician; she did not become a city planner; she did not become an economic theorist; she did not become a news reporter. She became the same old poofy-dress wearing, high-heeled, pretty little Disney woman she always was- which means she didn't really "become" anything at all. The role of the Disney princess remains stagnant. As always, the aim of the story is a kiss (which is a euphemism for something else) and the role of the ideal female is to look pretty. What a great message for little girls today.

I am sick and tired of Disney masquerading as family-oriented when in truth they're a profit-driven corporation willing to exploit the audience's emotion to get a buck. They know parents are looking for something that looks superficially clean and they know children are receptive to the idea of fairytales; they take those two principles and present a somehow "magical" product to the world of consumers. And they don't care if they limit the role of females to do it.

PS: 3 movies about Africa and no black princesses. Racists. So racist they made a movie that had to be removed from the market ("Song of the South.")

PPS: Shrek never disappoints. Success in life for the princess is not simply finding a man but something more, from self-discovery to challenging social norms. Not only did the princess give up being what is traditionally considered beautiful, but she is always the real hero.

sorry for that rant.

fog05tile

QUOTE (smeja @ Nov 25 2007, 11:45 AM)

i don't know which channel i was watching.. i think i watched pretty much all of them...

i don't know if i'll be 18 next election... how long is it away... 3 or 4 years... i'll either just be 18... or just not be 18...

It's every 3-4 years so it's up to Rudd to call that one. We kept switching because my parents were afraid that some of the graphics would burn into the screen

plane8order

Sally I 100% agree with you! I hate disney too. The only disney movies I really liked was "The Fox and the Hound" it makes me cry everytime.

dollarflame6

QUOTE (AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken @ Nov 25 2007, 10:47 AM)

Sally I 100% agree with you! I hate disney too. The only disney movies I really liked was "The Fox and the Hound" it makes me cry everytime.

Yeah, that was interesting b/c it was about friendship and had no female characters. But, in the end it was like, guess ppl from different backgrounds really can't be friends. So I dunno, not a very good message for children. It would be nice to see a children's movie that taught that peaceful coexistence is possible and desirable.

Other things I hated about Enchanted, b/c this is what I was thinking about last night b/f I went to sleep:

The only character that is not 2D (figuratively) is the henchman guy. He's the only character with real development. He suddenly realized that he disliked himself and then gradually, he understood that he was wasting his life as a henchman and so, at the end, he changed and became a successful author. I wish the female characters had been developed in this way.

The only powerful woman in the movie, the queen, was evil. Disney always presents powerful women as threatening and wicked. The ideal woman is always a submissive, subjugated pretty little thing offering the world her prettiness and nothing more.

Robert, in the opening, discourages his daughter from fairytales because he wants to prepare her for the real word but in the end embraces fairytale and calls love the most powerful thing in the world. What bull. I actually thought he was going to do CPR to save the princess but no, it was a kiss. You've failed your daughter, Robert. In Rawanda, people are being murdered under a genocidal regime- I think the things you're teaching your daughter, like that she should dream of "true love's kiss," are a little less important than you're making them out to be.

Why didn't anybody in this entire movie identify Gezelle as a classic schizophrenic?

Nancy married the prince as soon as she met him and then she lived happily ever after, diminishing any point or moral this story was trying to make. I understand that it's difficult to know what to do with her and the prince other than hook them up, but you've got millions of dollars and the best writing staff available- surely you can think of something other than contradicting yourself.

There is, actually, 1 Disnsey movie I like: Mulan. Mulan is the only female Disney character to contribute to her society, her nation, and even the history of her people- and she did it with her brains, not her body. The happy ending was not that she was kissed but that she brought honor to her family. Unfortunately, given the movies that came after Mulan, she was not a Disney pioneer but a fluke.

mayonaise

that's why i always liked Mulan, I guess it's my favourite Disney Movie... i do like the movies in gneral, but thats because i'm a fan of the drawing and the style and not the stories... oh and i love the emporer's new groove, which does not have the main topic of a young "damsel in distress", but I think it showed some good values, too. Unfortunately those few Disney movies are rarely known...

plane8order

Sally I never thought of Fox and the Hound that way. Hmm...makes me think differently now. Oh yeah I LOVE Mulan. I always wanted to be able to fight with swords lol. I also like the Aristocrats too.

dollarflame6

QUOTE (mayonaise @ Nov 25 2007, 06:42 PM)

that's why i always liked Mulan, I guess it's my favourite Disney Movie... i do like the movies in gneral, but thats because i'm a fan of the drawing and the style and not the stories... oh and i love the emporer's new groove, which does not have the main topic of a young "damsel in distress", but I think it showed some good values, too. Unfortunately those few Disney movies are rarely known...

Well, the antagonist in The Emperor's New Groove is a powerful woman (Eezma). The good woman is barefoot and pregnant (Paka's wife). So again, Disney portrays women in power as threatening while the ideal woman is submissive and not a developed character. So, The Emperor's New Groove is another example of Disney's anti-feminist attitude.

@Christy- I agree. Actually, The Aristocrats is a good movie, I think, because at least to some extent, O'Malley and Duchess are equal in development, status and even courtship. O'Malley doesn't save Duchess as much as he just plain amuses her (we can speculate that even though Duchess isn't as street-savy as O'Malley, she does have a good education and even if it would take a while longer, I think she'd be able to figure out how to survive on her own. O'Malley just expedited the process and made it more fun. Even if we don't speculate, it isn't as if Duchess particularly wants to kiss O'Malley; she's not waiting for her knight in shining armor, if I remember correctly). The other thing I like is that the actual Madame, who is wealthy (and therefore powerful) and sweet is of course a woman while the male butler (who is economically weak) is the antagonist. The issue does get a little complicated because the female is ultimately outwitted by the male, but overall, it's a decent movie. I would have liked it better and I think it would have been more interesting if it had been a wealthy male cat taking care of his kittens who is befriended by a street-wise, jazzy female cat, but that's a little much for Disney, I suppose. Let the makers of Shrek handle that one.


I think I've seen almost every Disney movie...not by choice...

plane8order

Again you are so right you should wright a letter to Disney.

Oh but what about the Incredibles and Cars those are good movies.

dollarflame6

QUOTE (AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken @ Nov 25 2007, 08:47 PM)

Again you are so right you should wright a letter to Disney.

Oh but what about the Incredibles and Cars those are good movies.

I'm not sure about the Incredibles. I have to be honest and say I don't remember it very well. I remember a seductive, evil woman, but there was also an evil man, right? So it would balance out. But did the woman become submissive in the end? I don't remember.
The hero had a wife tho, I do remember that. I don't remember how much of a heroine she was tho. I mean, I know she was a tights-and-cape-wearing-superhero, but that doesn't mean she was the one who actually saved the day. Was it her husband who actually saved the day? (which would mean Disney fails again)
Or wait, did the children save the day and not the husband or the wife? (which would just make this an amusing story with no implicit comment on gender roles and- since this is about incredible ppl- ironically, the ideal person)
I really don't remember and so I think I have no right to comment here.

Cars I actually never saw, so I can't comment on that either.

plane8order

Umm now I can't even remember. Lol. My friend borrowed them both and I don't have them back yet. Lol. But I think they all helped save the day.

canoe7grape

from what i can remember... Jack jack, the baby, was the one who eventually pulled through in the very end. Mrs. Incredible had to come rescue Mr. Incredible because he was trapped on the island by his former #1 fan/psycho. yes, there is a seductive woman, and i'm pretty sure in the end she ends up helping the incredibles out?

haha shit. i own it and i can't even remember

dollarflame6

QUOTE

you should wright a letter to Disney.

Writing to Disney doesn't do anything.
Do you remember their Bubble Boy movie? There actually was a boy with a terminal illness who had to live in a bubble and he wrote to Disney asking them not to make something that mocked ppl like him. Disney ignored him.

Seinfeld also had a bubble boy episode but here's the difference: the bubble boy in Seinfeld was a loud-mouthed New Yorker, just like everybody else. And since he was just like everybody else, George didn't pity him but instead treated him the same was he treats everybody he meets. In that, the Seinfeld episode was actually empowering. But in the Disney movie, what's emphasized is not that the boy is like everybody else, but that's he's not only pitiful but pathetic; the fact that he could be in love is made to be outrageous.

I really need to shut up now. ummm, I'll go do my hw.


and hahaha! nobody remembers the incredibles

plane8order

Well geez i've never seen it in this perspective before.

jedi_grrlie

QUOTE (Tabetha @ Nov 24 2007, 11:57 PM)

The advertised it to be a parody of the classic Disney princess story: in reality, it was the same old Disney.

Well, duh. Did you really think it was going to be anything else? Why would they make a movie that goes against everything that's been making them money for so long?


PS: could you maybe use spoiler tags in the future, for those of us who haven't seen a movie yet? It would be appreciated.

Tempe Arizona

QUOTE (Tabetha @ Nov 24 2007, 09:57 PM)

I am sick and tired of Disney masquerading as family-oriented when in truth they're a profit-driven corporation willing to exploit the audience's emotion to get a buck. They know parents are looking for something that looks superficially clean and they know children are receptive to the idea of fairytales; they take those two principles and present a somehow "magical" product to the world of consumers. And they don't care if they limit the role of females to do it.

Totally agree! They own way to many media outlets! Disney became far too reaching and greedy for me in the mid 1990s when they purchased the ABC network. It was also at that time that I notice way too many things attached to the Disney name: like boy bands, radio stations, tv networks. Warner Brothers always appealed to me more because even though they too make cartoons, they don't hide behind being family oriented in order to push an agenda.

DJRose

The Incredibles:
Seductive evil woman (named Mirage) sees the error of her ways and helps the Incredibles to defeat Syndrome. The Incredibles work best as a family (and they even need help from Frozone, their friend). The value of Teamwork is the message.

Emperor's New Groove:
The Barefoot and Pregnant Mom was a badass, clever woman who helped to save the day. She clearly "wore the pants" in that family, and Pacha listens to anything she says. She transcends the roles she would've had to play in the era where the story was set. Yzma is also a brilliant badass, older woman who dates young pretty boys, played by EARTHA KITT, one of the most awesome women in entertainment history. And in the cartoon made since, The Emperor's New School, Kuzco depends entirely on his smart, pretty, and did I mention smart female friend. She's good, kind, and a wonderful person, and she plays the role of conscience.

And for good measure:
I was just talking to my little cousin Friday about why she shouldn't idolize/emulate London from Suite Life of Zack and Cody. I was able to point out that Maddie was the smart girl and that she was the one who always won out. Zack (or Cody, I can't be bothered to remember which is which) has a crush on Maddie. London is a joke, and nothing more. There's even a Cyranno episode where Maddie has to help London go on a date with a smart boy (played by Zac Efron) because London is too stupid to talk to him. London is discovered, and Maddie ends up getting the boy. And yeah, I can see why it's anti-feminist for the boy to be the "prize", but the important thing is that the SMART GIRL is the one who wins.

As for Enchanted:
Giselle's career as a fashion designer is not a bad thing in any regard. Let's look at it from another angle, yes? Her Natural Talent is making dresses. She makes her (absolutely amazing) wedding dress, she makes her own (beautiful) dresses out of fabric she finds lying around. And she seems to enjoy it. Why is turning that into a career a bad thing? She's doing what she loves for a living. I would LOVE that kind of career fulfillment. Isn't that one of the things Feminists fought for? Furthermore the dresses she makes for the little girls are just that - dresses appropriate for little girls. Letting these little girls stay little. Have you seen what little girls are wearing these days? It's kind of disturbing how much skin these little girls show these days. They wear stuff *I* wouldn't wear. I think that dressing little girls in sexy clothes is worse for feminism than big poofy dresses.

Giselle's life *does* impact the world - she's a successful businesswoman *and* a "mother" for a little girl who needs one. That's pretty big, I think. So she's not influencing the course of nations. Not all of us can. That doesn't mean that our lives are meaningless.

I've always felt that our feminist forebearers not only fought for equality and the right to go out and have fulfilling careers, they also fought for the CHOICE to pursue the lives we want. I'm proud of my love for Disney and Disney Princesses. They've taught me to believe in myself and go after my dreams because they can come true.

And the music is AWESOME.