In this Discussion
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Comments
Rachel:
Just wanna say first off, that I love discussions with you. Part of your awesomeness is your smartness
It's true that feminists fight for the choice. And I agree with you that motherhood is significant- in fact, raising a human being is the most important and difficult job imaginable. And so you're right that she does have a noble job at the end. But, my point is that, with fashion, she is in an industry that is inherently about appearance. And that emphasizes worth by beauty, even if in a subtler way than Sleeping Beauty does it. There is no "Sleeping Ugly." Snow White was in danger b/c the mirror said she was the "fairest in the land." Would the queen have been up in arms about a girl who was ugly? I doubt it, and the message that comes across is that the best kind of girl is the prettiest girl. And just once, I'd like to see a movie for children that taught that there is something other than dresses and long full hair and snow-white skin. What exacerbates all this in Enchanted in particular, is that fairytales are contrasted with the real world. So, we see a book discussing Marie Curie versus a fairytale book and the people of NY versus a princess. The movie therefore positions the audience to weigh the two: the conclusion of the film affirms that the traditional role of the princess (namely beauty in all its poofy-dressed glory) beats out anything that a Marie Curie lifestyle offers. It would have been so much better if the princess had realized that she could, in fact, do more than make dresses. It's all well and good that she can sew dresses and be pretty, but she and we already knew that from the moment we saw her. That is, she didn't change at all. If instead she had been influenced by the Marie Curie book, if she had ever said to the little girl, "you could become whatever you want to become" instead of saying "true love's kiss is so important," if she had discovered that she too had a knack for chemistry or fixing cars or drawing maps of the city or hunting bears- if she had done anything at all but reinforce her beauty, I would applaud. But she didn't and so I can't. All she does is give further weight to Disney's traditional limitations on the female role. Historically, women have been sexual objects: the ideal woman is fertile and gorgeous. It's far past time we got over that and saw what else women can do.
Emperor:
The antagonist may seem badass to us, but, well, she's still the antagonist. Another powerful, threatening woman, just like Snow White's wicked queen, Cinderella's wicked stepmom, mermaid's Ursula seawitch...list goes on. Is it any wonder Hilary Clinton is called a bitch for acting in ways that get male politicians applauded?
As for the wife, she doesn't really save the day...she doesn't really do much of anything at all but wash the dishes and tell her husband she supports him- which is all good and well but doesn't make her the active hero.
The point is that when women are powerful in a Disney movie, they're the antagonist. When they're not the antagonist, they're never the direct hero. The women in a Disney movie are limited in role.*
* The one exception is Mulan. Let's have another Mulan, please. She was the hero- unquestionably, the hero. She didn't give support to a husband or wait for a kiss. She kicked ass.
In consequence of this information, I am going to refrain from any further judgment of the Disney corporation.
I may even applaud them some day soon. I may, actually, for the first time in my life, support them. In light of this, I must proclaim Rachel to be the victor.
But know this, Disney! If you mess this one up, I'll never shut up about it.
the info that she gave me that changed my mind is:
they're making a movie about a black princess.
I think here Pachas wife is a "not developed character" because she really is not part of the plot... it's about the young emperor who changes and I don't think that she had no bigger part in that movie because of Disney's anti- feminist attitude... And I would not count too much in her being pregnant and that, the emphasis here i think lay on the fact, that there's a small family that feared to lose the house and of course it's much more dramatic when there is an unborn child... So, I think you're right when saying that Disney has a certain view on what the ideal woman should be like but i really don't think one can apply this everywhere, in every movie just seeking out those parts where one sees it and ignoring scenes that show a different view.
instead i will say this:
Agadoo-doo-doo, push pineapple, shake the tree,
Agadoo-doo-doo, push pineapple, grind coffee,
To the left, to the right, jump up and down and to the knees,
Come and dance every night, sing with the hula melody
oh, the splendid randomness of agadoo... i love that song....
A few years ago I've really wanted to work as one of those artists for Disney, propably just because I thought that all of those people were so talented and I wanted to be just as talented...
and having this discussion and all, I wondered, what happens at the end of Pocahontas? I really can't remember, did she stay? (i hope she did... but for somer reason i did not like this Disney film not very much so maybe it's because she followed that man back to England?)
A few years ago I've really wanted to work as one of those artists for Disney, propably just because I thought that all of those people were so talented and I wanted to be just as talented...
and having this discussion and all, I wondered, what happens at the end of Pocahontas? I really can't remember, did she stay? (i hope she did... but for somer reason i did not like this Disney film not very much so maybe it's because she followed that man back to England?)
I dunno, Mayo, you could be just as talented! I've seen some of your fan art - don't sell yourself short.
I'm not so much of a Pocahontas fan myself, truth be told. It was a big let down after the awesomeness of The Lion King. Also, I don't like Mel Gibson (although that's a MUCH more recent development). Anyway the movie ends with her staying with her tribe, however in Pocahontas 2, and in actual history, Pocahontas marries John Rolfe and returns to England with him.
But with Pocahontas, I think you'll get an agreement all around that it's historically inaccurate, not only in its plot but in it's depiction of how Pocahontas looked. I can't even defend Disney on that one.
who could sweep you off your feet,
and take you some where else?
edit: just a test... one of the only pics i have on the school comp
Agadoo-doo-doo, push pineapple, shake the tree,
Agadoo-doo-doo, push pineapple, grind coffee,
To the left, to the right, jump up and down and to the knees,
Come and dance every night, sing with the hula melody
oh, the splendid randomness of agadoo... i love that song....
Asanti sana, squash banana,
weigh weigh nu-goo mi mi apana!!
Not to mention the fact that she was based on Demi Moore.
whatwhat
maybe i just like the ones with show tune like songs and singing animals
but yeah, i did a research project on the original little mermaid in high school. The original was pretty gruesome, and no way like the Disney version. Also looking back, Ariel leaving her family for a man isnt that great a message, but i have to admit that didn't stop me from loving the disney version when i was a kid. I understand all of your objections to disney, but i kinda wish they still made movies like that now-a-days. Beautiful animation, great songs, talking animals that arnt trying to take over the world, etc...
My main problem with the Disney princesses was that the only one with red hair was half fish anyway.
Way to build my confidence
My main problem with the Disney princesses was that the only one with red hair was half fish anyway.
Way to build my confidence
Half fish? Oh my dear Allie, I adore you.
Ariel is my favorite BECAUSE she's a redhead. And a singer. And married to a gorgeous guy with dark hair and light eyes. Ignore the fish part, because she's a mermaid, and it's all better. She's hot.
But that doesn't negate the fact that she has scales where legs should be. My only Disney "role model" caused me to stickytape my legs together. *sigh*
I just love those two names together. It brings to mind Cheech and Chong or some kind of madcap male comedy. My school was terribly concerned about me sharing a trailer with a girl and a guy on the Hopi Rez for 6 weeks. Meanwhile, they don't seem to care at all that I'm sharing a condo with Clayton and Jose for a month.
The condo is in desperate need of a vacume and a scrubbing, but is otherwise nice and cozy. It's two stories tall with 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, a full kitchen, living room, and tv. For internet, I have to go next door to the library. Jose is downstairs. Clayton and I have our bedrooms upstairs. We have to share a bathroom. I haven't met Jose yet. But Clayton is adorable. He's pretty much what you'd expect a guy our aged who is named Clayton to be. He's a sweet, shy country boy. He said he wasn't even expecting a new roomate. He seemed rather surprised and shy that it was going to be a girl roomate. For some odd reason, as he hurried to empty out the bathroom to make room for my stuff, I saw a box of chocolates. Why does he keep a box of chocolates in the bathroom? Boys are so weird. One of my classmates just finished up being in Flagstaff. I've taken his room. Clayton and Jose loved my classmate. I hope I can get along with the two of them as well. I hope they'll be fun guys, not just random strangers I have to share a condo with for 4 weeks. I like sweet shy boys and boys that are younger than me. It brings out all my Mrs. Robinson/older woman controlling nature, lol. No, but seriously, I hope I can tolerate living with them and they can tolerate me.
Take a picture of Clayton or me, if you can. I've got this image in my head and I wana know if it's anywhere near accurate... hehee!!
I had another med school interview today.
The day was a disorganised mess.
My interview went really well
YAY!
Take a picture of Clayton or me, if you can. I've got this image in my head and I wana know if it's anywhere near accurate... hehee!!
I had another med school interview today.
The day was a disorganised mess.
My interview went really well
YAY!
Lol, what are you picturing him to look like?
Wow, that's great! Was that the Cambridge interview? I've got one coming up in California. Awesome how you can handle disorganization so well. I'd probably go nuts
Wow, that's great! Was that the Cambridge interview? I've got one coming up in California. Awesome how you can handle disorganization so well. I'd probably go nuts
I'm imagining Clayton wearing sweater vests and having wavy mousy hair in a sort of windswept Saved By The Bell type situation.
Nope, Cambridge is next Monday (eeee!!). This one was Bristol. The interviewers ask me how I like to relax and spend my free time, so I spoke about music and going to OK go shows and how I've met so many friends through our mutual love of the same band (that's you guys, my lovelies).
Oooo yay! Good luck in Cali, Tempe!!!
Haha I couldn't handle it - I almost missed my train home, so I got really stressed. I tried to get my interview time changed, and then in the end I just happened to get a wonderful taxi driver who zoomed me to the station afterwards.
Nope, Cambridge is next Monday (eeee!!). This one was Bristol. The interviewers ask me how I like to relax and spend my free time, so I spoke about music and going to OK go shows and how I've met so many friends through our mutual love of the same band (that's you guys, my lovelies).
Oooo yay! Good luck in Cali, Tempe!!!
Haha I couldn't handle it - I almost missed my train home, so I got really stressed. I tried to get my interview time changed, and then in the end I just happened to get a wonderful taxi driver who zoomed me to the station afterwards.
LOL!!! You hear the name "Clayton" and picture a Beverly Hills living Von Thurstenburg the Third type of a lad. I hear the name and picture a hillbilly in overalls with some missing teeth.
He's neither, or wait, maybe he's a mix of both and I just don't realize it yet.
Mine's next week too! Never been to Cali, so I'm excited.
Wow, trains sound like they are a big pain in UK.